Oliver Lee Bateman admits that this may not be exactly how the conversation went, but it is exactly how it felt to him.
“Hey, I’m this one guy you met.”
“Hi, good to see you. I’m Emily.”
“Hi Emily. Are you ready for our date?”
“Are you calling this a date? Is that what this is?”
“I guess so.”
“I’m not comfortable with the term ‘date.’ That puts a lot of pressure on me.”
“I agree. Let’s call it hanging out.”
“No, I don’t like that, either. Let’s just call it nothing.”
“Okay, Emily, then it’s nothing. We’re doing nothing.”
“I like that. I like doing nothing with you.”
“Yeah, I guess it beats doing something.”
“Does it? I like staying active. You know, going out and doing stuff.”
“So do I, Emily. I’m a big fan of doing stuff, especially when I go out.”
“Well, there are also times when it’s good to stay in.”
“You’re so right. Most nights, I’d just like to curl up in my pajamas while staying in. It’s a jungle out there and so forth.”
“I hope you’re not one of those guys who just wants me to come over and stay at his dirty rat hole of a place. I want a guy who comes up with interesting ideas for dates.”
“But I thought you weren’t comfortable calling this a date.”
“This? No way—definitely not a date, definitely not with you. What I mean is when I’m on a date with a guy I’m in a relationship with who isn’t you.”
“I see. So what do you want from a relationship, Emily?”
“Relationships? Ugh, those are so twentieth century. I just want something casual.”
“I’m all for that. Casual is best.”
“I don’t agree. See, I want you to want to have a relationship with me, but I don’t want to have a relationship with you.”
“What? That’s confusing!”
“No, I need attention from you. But I’m definitely not going to reciprocate. Not your attention, anyway. I’m going to reciprocate someone else’s attention, except that’ll be a one-way street, too. What I want, I guess, is at least two one-way streets: One where you’re needing me and one where I’m needing some other, better guy.”
“If you need a better guy, why are we hanging out?”
“Hanging out? I thought we were doing nothing.”
“Excuse me, why are we doing nothing?”
“You asked me out, right?”
“Huh? You sent me an e-mail asking me if I wanted to have coffee with you, Emily.”
“I didn’t mean it. I think you totally misinterpreted that.”
“Did I?”
“When a girl says or writes that she wants to have coffee with you, she’s trying to tell you that she doesn’t want to have coffee with you. I was being nice.”
“But I didn’t want to have coffee with you. However, I did want to have coffee after you asked me, because I thought you were interested in me…”
“Why on earth would you think that?”
“You wrote that you were interested in me and wanted to have coffee!”
“I wasn’t, though. That’s just what I wrote. You’re so silly.”
“Okay. Let me see if I understand: Right now we’re doing nothing, and this isn’t a date, and you didn’t want to go on it, even though you asked me to go.”
“Exactly. How hard is it to understand that?”
“What about this other, better guy? Why don’t you have coffee with him?”
“If I had coffee with him, he might learn that I liked him. I want to have a relationship with him, but I don’t want him to know that. Besides, I have a fear of relationships. Also a fear of dates.”
“But not a fear of doing nothing.”
“No, doing nothing is okay. Anyway, you’re harmless. Like a brother or a best girlfriend. I can say anything to you and it won’t bother you at all.”
“Yeah, I’m glad you can, Emily. Lucky for you, I’m a total doormat. I don’t have any feelings. I’m the perfect guy to do nothing with, and I certainly won’t challenge you in any way.”
“Just don’t pressure me. I don’t like being pressured.”
“Have I pressured you, Emily?”
“I can’t shake the feeling that you’re trying to turn this nothing into something. This nothing will never be something, guy I met.“
“I don’t expect it to be. In fact, I have no expectations at all. You matter, but I don’t. I’m happy to sit here and listen to you ramble about your doubts, hopes, and dreams. I won’t even point out how contradictory they are.”
“Great! So I can tell you how I want a guy who will love me with all of his heart, except he’ll ignore me most of the time. Money won’t matter, but he’ll be very rich and will buy me lots of expensive crap. He’ll be handsome but not really, not enough that he’ll ever make me feel insecure about my looks, and I’ll always be able to outsmart him, even though he’s a genius. We’ll have kids, and I’ll care about them so much that I’ll never see them because I’m always on vacation or getting my nails done or getting my highlights retouched or whatever.”
“That sounds so wonderful, Emily. It sure does. My life is of no consequence, and I’ll die alone and forgotten, but I’m happy that you have it figured out.”
“I don’t respect your opinion, but I’m glad you’re listening to me. You should be, too.”
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image: crazycatchthecat / flickr
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If I were this guy I would have left and I would not bother to have a conversation with her. That girl is weird, but sure the guy is more weird because he want to follow her stupid conversation. I would just drink my coffee, not saying anything, and leave money for the coffee and leave.
I became happier when I decided that the Emily’s of the world were best responded to by flight. If she’s short, climb a tree, if she can’t swim, hit the river, if there’s a window nearby, auto-defenestration.
Does this shed light on anything? Caricatures are funny, but I feel like that’s all you’re doing – exaggerating. No one really feels this way. Sure people act this way, but you do nothing by just mocking up some extremely unrealistic account of this conversation. I’d say try to make it funnier or more insightful because where this is at now, isn’t working…
Well, Robert – seems like quite a few people who appreciate this piece, saying it strikes a chord with them (and have noted as much above) beg to differ with you.
That’s fine with me. I didn’t post this because I couldn’t see that other people enjoyed this. I just think this kind of thing gets done a lot, especially on this site, and it’s a platitude. The girl who merely wants attention because the guy she actually likes flummoxes her. I get it… I’m just saying, I can see why people like this, but to me it’s akin to liking Rom Coms: overly obvious and lacking sophistication.
Does this shed light on anything. Caricatures are funny, but I feel like that’s all you’re doing – exaggerating. No one really feels this way. Sure people act this way, but you do nothing by just mocking up some extremely unrealistic account of this conversation. I’d say try to make it funnier or more insightful because where this is at now, isn’t working…
I agree. For some people they will hold this up and say “see!: this is what women say/think/want/do!” but while there are women that actually exhibit some of these behaviors and contradictions let’s be careful to generalize.
I hope that one day all the boys who post statuses about how girls don’t want nice guys, and all the boys who post statuses about how they want a ‘real man’ who will do absolutely everything they ask ever immediately can hook up and live in a colony together somewhere away from people interested in relationships with equality involved.
And I say ‘boys and girls’ because I don’t think that the Nice Guys and Emilys of the world have shown maturity worthy of adult terms.
Wow. The Emilys of this world give the Heathers of this world a bad name!
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again – if the whole world were gay we wouldn’t have these problems. lol 😉
Seriously, though, that Emily sounds like a piece of work.
Good piece but I think it dragged on way too long.
Emily: “No, I don’t like that, either. Let’s just call it nothing.”
You: “I don’t care what it’s called. Let’s just go grab that coffee. You seem like a fun girl.”
Ignore everything else that isn’t a “yes let’s go” or “no, I’ve changed my mind”.
@eric: “Ignore everything else that isn’t a “yes let’s go” or “no, I’ve changed my mind”.”
Ah…!
If only communication between genders was THAT easy and clear!!! 😆
More often than not, it’s rather decoding and guesswork. 🙄
And really, how dull is this stupid Emily? Here’s my friend Patty’s advice to her boys for dating – Ask people about themselves, and find out what you have in common. Where was she when I was out there? Thankfully no longer! It’s so refreshing to find friends who are honest and open, whose edges you can feel, who will disagree without being mean about it. Because in the end, truth lets everyone make better decisions for themselves, it really does set us free. I guess this struck a nerve because being English, we trip over ourselves with being oh,… Read more »
Oliver, I just stumbled across this site through a friend today and your article was the first thing I read. Suffice it to say I will be returning, this was gold! I probably know 20 girls who actually think this is the way people behave.
Stick with it guys, you might find one angel for every 20 of these airheads, but when you do it’s worth it.
Hee hee! I’m so glad I am out of the dating world… so confusing! This dialogue gave me a headache! I guess the two sexes will forever miscommunicate and try to second-guess each other…sort of like some crazy chess games where the rules keep changing (but no tells you the new rules and you don’t know how to win)…. This is why I love scuba diving with my husband…you can only communicate through a few key hand signals and gestures…and the goal is very clear: get back to the surface with enough air in your tank and don’t get eaten… Read more »
And an expensive dinner. And anything else I can afford! You stay at home and raise the kids?
I’ll buy you a plane ticket!
Can you come over and play?
Whatever this woman wantd, it’s definately best you stay awayfrom her, if she keeps telling you contradictory things and blaming you for ‘incompetance’ for not understanding her, it’s highly likely she’s gaslighting you,meaning she is confusing you and maknig you doubt yourself so she can manipulate you into doing what she wants, this is abuse, she may not even realise she’s doing it but it sounds like she’s bad news.
What the guy doesn’t get is that, by constantly telling him that she’s not interested in him and that she’s definitely not in a date with him, she’s actually concealing the fact that she’s into him and wants his babies.
Oliver, I love this! Thanks for writing it.
This might as well be the playbook of every date I went on in my late twenties. Thanks for sharing…
Yeah, what a rough time of life that is. Everyone who hasn’t paired off by then seems even more aimless and confused than before, and as a consequence you keep winding up in situations like the one I described.
“When a girl says or writes that she wants to have coffee with you, she’s trying to tell you that she doesn’t want to have coffee with you. I was being nice.”
This made me laugh out loud, and also reminded me of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wonVFRasUbA
I spent my late teens/early twenties misreading social cues à la Costanza in that video. It all worked out for the best, but how strange I must have seemed back then.
I laughed my ass off reading this! What makes it so funny is that it’s based on real people! In a truely Fair world , Emily would end up with the guy that Valter described. Wouldn’t that be something to see? I’d buy a ticket to watch that!
@bobbt: “In a truely Fair world , Emily would end up with the guy that Valter described”
Yeah, THAT would be fun! 😆
I saw some couple like this: they were both so self-absorbed, they didn’t notice the other wasn’t listening at all.
They don’t last long, of course. 😉
This reminds me of a much shorter conversation that I had with a young lady on a first date.
Her: “Well, if you want to be with me, I have some rules. First, if I call you any time day or night, you better drop what you’re doing and meet me. Second, Don’t call me, I’ll call you. Third…”
Me: “Ok, well…it was nice meeting you. Goodbye.”
@Rand: “… it was nice meeting you”.
You liar! 😆
Oliver, this was hilarious and sad at the same time. 😆
I just wonder why you didn’t metaphorically kicked her butt sooner. 😉
Great writing, anyhow!
I think that obnoxious girl is the female equivalent of the cliché “I just want to fuck you and then you’ll be gone” guy. Totally egocentrical, zero empathy, insecure and manipulative.
I believe that kind of people aren’t many, but they leave a trail of harm and broken hearts on their path (for both genders).
Emily sounds wonderful to me. One of a tiny number of honest people on this planet. I think every man on this planet can agree, none of us would honestly want anything to do with Emily.
Here is how to handle it:
Emily: “I hope you’re not one of those guys …”
You: “Thank you for being honest with me, Emily. I can see that neither of us has anything to offer the other. Have a good life.”
Get up and leave.
Yes. Don’t tolerate that behavior from people.
Unfortunately, women or better people like ‘Emily’ aren’t always easy to identify or decipher as Oliver has done so successfully, leaving the other party mystified and confused by the whole interaction..
I’m going to chime in here and hopefully not (really) embarrass Oliver. I’m his fiancee, and this is the first piece of his I ever read when we began dating two years ago. At that point, I’d been ‘dating around’ quite awhile as well, and frankly, was way-too-aware that there were girls out there like this, and was sick of dealing with guys who, somehow, deep down, actually preferred girls who strung them along… they seemed to view them as ‘independent’ and ‘mysterious’ — whereas I was pretty sure they were just ‘playing games’ and ‘issue-y’. It was something I… Read more »
I appreciated your comment, Bethany.
I’m glad you two found each other; there are lots of “nice guys / girls” out there – IMHO – it’s just harder noticing them. Good thing you were able to do.
Bethany, you lucky girl! Got yourself a keeper! 🙂
Bethany, thanks for your comments! I think I am right where you were two years ago & I agree – this would be a very refreshing thing to read from someone! Thanks for sharing.
My pleasure, Katie… and here’s my best advice – not that you asked for it, but I’m still going to give it: don’t read ‘He’s Just Not That Into You’!! It might just be women in my age range (30ish) that felt like we were supposed to read it, and I have no idea if it’s still popular now — but I swear that book and it’s slew of followers seriously disillusioned and confused the heck out of SO many of my single female friends when we were in our mid-twenties. But, even if it’s not that book, there’s always… Read more »
I loved this! Very interesting and sadly there are many women who are like this. Don’t get me wrong, I love my sisters and all but this was very ‘nice guy finishes last’/’stuck in the friend zone’/’women love assholes’-ish, which unfortunately isn’t very uncommon. It’s clear this is one of the reasons men have difficulty understanding women especially in this context. For crying out loud, say what you mean and mean what you say!!